Sensemaking with Wolé and Tobi

The one about men's secret fears
It may not be too surprising why some men might choose to hide their fears from women.
But even when we men get together as friends, it’s still very uncommon for us to talk about our secret fears.
From how we look, to our account balance, to if we're still under 5 ft 5, to rejection, commitment, and disappointment, whew, can’t deny that there’s plenty for many men worry about.
One would have hoped that locker rooms would provide a safe space for men to open up about these fears but that’s rarely the case.
We all have fears that we spend a great deal of time trying to hide. But what happens when we make those fears the subject of a conversation?
Well, we sat down with another old friend, Folu, to find out. Folu is a business developer, amateur photographer and writer, and runs an amazing blog - foluoyefeso.com, where he documents his experiences and interactions with Nigerian places, people and plates!
Timestamps
[02:55]- Your partner's history
[6:59]- The other fear of commitment
[15:20]- Men and emotions
[18:17]- The beard gang
[22:44]- It's all about the body type
[27:38]- The threat of other men
[35:45]- Mo' money mo' problems?
[45:02]- The battles ahead
[48:26]- Leaving a legacy
 
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The one about adult attachment styles.
Have you noticed you date the same kind of person over and over again? Or do you find yourself needing to be the centre of attention most times?
Part of the answer lies in your attachment style; in how you bonded with your parents/guardians in your childhood.
Our attachment styles describe the ways we interact with and attach to others, especially in adult relationships and so we sat down with Deola, a friend of a friend, to have a conversation about it.
Deola also runs a youtube channel where she shares her views on a range of topics, so be sure to subscribe!
Timestamps
[04:34]- Upbringing
[07:35]- Attachment styles quiz (take the quiz too!)
[17:45]- “What’s your type”
[27:43]- Being in love
[43:53]- Thoughts on attachment styles
[50:13]- Attachment style patterns to drop
 
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The one about cultural awakenings.
On this episode, we were joined by Tony as we brought all our childhood and adult perceptions of East Asian/West African culture more broadly to the table and compared both our cultures which may sometimes seem so distant yet quite similar.
Timestamps:
[07:34]- Kung fu movies
[18:22]- Tribes in China
[25:49]- Early stereotypes
[32:34]- "All Asians look alike"
[35:17]- Racism
[49:32]- Interracial dating and the "Yellow Fever"
 
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The one about loneliness
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Lockdowns, social distancing, work-from-home. Damn. 
2020 has been challenging for us all for many reasons. One obvious issue is that the pandemic has negatively impacted our social lives. 
Loneliness has been on the rise mainly because our means of physically connecting with the social world has been hindered throughout 2020.
But that aside.
Loneliness has been a public health issue among young adults even before 2020. It is an outbreak of its own, and it is one that predates the pandemic and has struck young adults very hard. 
It goes beyond being single or having no close emotional connections. It can even occur when we have close bonds around.
Many young adults are in transition phases of life, either by relocating, getting new jobs, becoming new parents, entering new/leaving existing relationships, and this means that the feelings of being excluded are only more likely. 
It is no brainer that loneliness is linked to mental health issues, but it can also contribute to poorer physical health.
Despite this, we think loneliness is too often ignored as an issue in society. And so we decided to talk about it, this time around, with a friend, Sandra.
 
Timestamps:
[01:45]- Introductions
[05.50]- First experiences of loneliness
[09:55]- Plant parenthood
[22:03]- Social media
[28:20]- Who knows you?
[33:34]- Cities vs Communities
[41:07]- How do you react to someone being lonely?
[42:57]- Signs of loneliness
[56:06]- Coping with loneliness
[62:01]- ASMR
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The one about deep thoughts and existential questions
 
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Do you ever have some random and deep thoughts that come to you in unexpected moments, places, or situations? 
Those random or fleeting thoughts that come to mind when you’re in the middle of dull or routine activities.
Those thoughts that happen when we are simultaneously navigating a distracted world while trapped in a world of our own. 
Those thoughts that come when we are in the car, laying in bed, working out, or taking a shower. 
These thoughts aren’t the kind that typically make it to the small-talk table or into our everyday conversations. They are sometimes weird, dark, shameful, ridiculous, or uncomfortable to share. 
What happens when they make it out? Well, let’s find out.
 
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Timestamps
[07:00]- Destiny and predestination
[14:14]- The afterlife
[16:15]- Aliens?
[22:27]- History
[27:28]- Deepfakes
[30:47]- Flaws of democracy
[36:39]- The bliss of ignorance
[41:00]- The slavery of pets
[44:10]- Talent shows and Rome

The one about season 2!
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On this season's recap episode, we caught up with 5 of our friends (Oluwatosin, Tymele, Yemi, Chidinma, and Ojuolape) who have all been following the podcast this season. They talked about their favourite episodes, biggest takeaways, and topics they'd like to see us have a conversation about on future episodes.
Follow us on Instagram to find out when we'll be back for our 3rd season! 

The one about identity politics on a daily.
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...
Us vs Them
Men vs Women
White vs Blacks
Liberals vs Conservatives
Pro-Choice vs Pro-Life...
etc. vs etc.
 
There is a growing concern for us about how we each see the world nowadays.
We've been thinking, do we judge people as individuals or do we judge them by the group they’re affiliated with?
Do we judge others based on how they look, the politicians they voted for, or do we judge them by their thoughts, reasoning, and logic?
Do we rush to assume a lack of deeper understanding when we run into atheists or do we claim some form of superior intelligence when we encounter theists?
How about when we meet someone who is Black? White? Asian? conservative? liberal? Do we assume we know the kinds of people they are based on a collective? or do we seek to understand each person's story?
...
Often we forget that people are much more than societal labels. We become guilty of prejudice, not giving enough credence to the stories beneath the surface.
So on this final episode of our second season, we explored and shared our thoughts around identity politics and its effect on how we relate with the world today.
 
(You can follow 20s Convos on Instagram to join the conversation! We put out quotes, polls, and clips from each episode every week.)
 
Key Timestamps
[01:54] - Categorising our group identities
[12:37] - Digging deep into the concept of diversity
[28:36] - When can identity politics be good or bad?
[32:32] - Thoughts on people getting more fragile and easily offended
[50:07] - The state of the world today 

The one about the Machiavellian Man.
Which male “dark archetypes” do you recognise?
Playboy? Bad Boy? Loverboy? Rake? Yoruba demon? Heartbreaker? Ladies man? The boy next door? 
And which of these archetypes would you high-five, find attractive or rebuke?
Where do you draw the line?
--
Research shows that the dark traits of narcissism, psychopathy and Machiavellianism are more common with men than women. Besides, our social lives will also offer some proof. We all have one/two/three-degree female connections that have been left in despair/trauma as a result of encounters with males with these traits.
Whether these archetypes/traits are attractive to females is not the question or argument here.
The difficulty and genuine confusion for us is understanding the unspoken motivations and reasons behind the manipulative, coercive, apathetic, and entitled behaviours some of us males exhibit in our pursuit of short to long relationships.
So we sat down together to openly and self-critically talk about this, reflecting on our past and present experiences.
--
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Timestamps
[06:19]- Thoughts on the male archetypes[09:39] - Archetypes we fall into[12:18] - Archetypes we draw the line on[20:19] - Thoughts on why males consciously mess up females[35:35] - Thoughts on the socially acceptable strategies of chasing short/long term relationships[45:44] - Potential "benefits" of being promiscuous?

The one about bridging generational gaps.
In recent years, there's been a common misconception that Gen Z and Millennials are essentially the same.
Sure, there is a case to be made for the generational overlaps that exist between them, but we can’t really deny that there are a lot of fundamental differences with how both generations were raised and their views about life.
These differences seem to find expression in our views about technology, the economy, politics, education, career paths, religion, spirituality, family, equality, social justice and a lot more.
This was a conversation between 2 Millennials (your hosts) and 2 folks from generation Z (@sirjvmes & @adeyybasqi)
 
Remember to subscribe to the podcast on the app you're using right now and follow 20s Convos on Instagram to join the conversation! We put out quotes, polls, and clips from each episode every week.
 
Timestamps
[03:24] - Generational landmarks
[06:24] - Guest introductions
[09:42] - Generational differences
[13:34] -Social media preferences
[18:26] - Generational stereotypes
[30:26] - Inter-generation dating
[34:50] - Halfway message
[35:30] - Gen z and Millenials thoughts on marriage
[41:40] - Thoughts on each generation's global impact
[47: 43] - Modern ‘careers‘
[53:36] - Final thoughts

The one about entrepreneurs and 9-5ers.
If you are a 9-5er, you’ve probably heard those people say: “You should be building your dream and not building the dream of others”, or “I don’t date people that do 9-5”, or “working for a company is modern slavery”, or “go and read Rich Dad Poor Dad!!!”
If you are an entrepreneur, you’ve probably also heard these words: “Who are you to start a business?”, or “your idea cannot work”, or “you’re just trying to avoid hard work” or “9 out of 10 businesses fail!”
It’s almost become part of the culture to categorise people based on their job trajectories.
But is building a company better than a building a career or the other way around and are there constraints to taking any of those positions?
On this episode, we sat down with two brilliant women, @abiolaayanleye and @mint___oo  to talk about the pits between entrepreneurship and 9-5s, the overlooked rationales in those debates, and our personal experiences of what each camp brings that aren’t easily seen by everyone.
 
Remember to subscribe to the podcast on the app you're using right now and follow 20s Convos on Instagram to join the conversation! We put out quotes, polls, and clips from each episode every week.
 
Timestamps
[02:00] - Introduction
[07:19] - Pros and Cons 
[20:22] - Thoughts on the “pop culture” of entrepreneurship
[29:50] - The “uninspiring” perception of a 9-5
[33:34] - Thoughts on “passion” vs “convenience”
[41:55] - Gender-related issues/barriers
[50:40]- Thoughts on potential impact of family life on building a career/company
[1:03:00] - Final words

The one about the reality of raising kids.
First off, there is a lot of research out there that shows most parents learn parenting practices from their own parents - some they accept and some they discard.
Another popular view that gets thrown around a lot is that it takes a village to raise a child. That said, it looks like millennial parents are raising their kids differently than any generation before them.
With the internet, parents now seem to know more about child development than ever before. The bad news though, it can be overwhelming and sometimes disempowering. 
Sometimes the truth behind all the cute kid posts on social media is that parents are agonising about daily decisions, keeping up appearances and struggling with their new identities.
So on this episode, we caught up with an old-time friend, Afolake, to explore a bit about how we were raised as kids and how we think that will translate to our prospective/current approach to parenthood.
 
Remember to subscribe to the podcast on the app you're using right now and follow 20s Convos on Instagram to join the conversation! We put out quotes, polls, and clips from each episode every week.
 
Timestamps
[06:58] - Expectations about parenthood
[10:34] - Parenting methods
[27:55] - Fears about raising kids
[46:55] - "Half-time"
[47:27] - When's the best time to have kids?
[57:21] - Surrogacy
[59:41] - Adoption
[1:00:05] - Househubands and Housewives
[1:03:57] - Vasectomies and Tubal Ligations

The one about domestic workers and cultural nuances.
Did you grow up in a house with live-in help? How many? How much do you remember about how they were treated? How much about them did you know? When did they finally leave? Did they run away? 
Here’s the thing, UNICEF considers domestic work to be among the lowest status and reports that most child domestic workers are live-in workers and are under the round-the-clock control of their employers.
According to one of its reports, “A staggering 15 million children under the age of 14 are working across Nigeria”.
They are generally children from very poor homes, whose parents cannot afford to send them to school or train them in a particular profession or trade.
Nigeria’s laws regarding the minimum age of employment are inconsistent where the Child Rights Act prohibits those under 18 from working, yet the Labour Act sets the minimum age of employment at 12.
So we thought it was worth throwing a bit more light on domestic workers and cultural nuances surrounding the “industry”. 
Remember to subscribe to the podcast on the app you're using right now and follow 20s Convos on Instagram to join the conversation! We put out quotes, polls, and clips from each episode every week.
Timestamps
[00:30] - Setting the context
[03:24] - Our experiences with live-in help
[07:07] - The historical context of domestic work
[09:41] - The middlemen and the "supply network"
[14:32] - Our future plans concerning live-in help
[23:06] - Underage domestic workers
[25:03] - Decoupling the responsibilities/workload
[25:46] - Were our parents "bad" people for having live-in help?
[28:07] - Househelp or Modern-day slave?
[34:18] - The abuse of domestic workers

The one about the tension between fitness and body positivity
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The body positivity movement tells us to love and accept our bodies regardless of physical ability, size, or appearance, which is true. 
The fitness industry tells us we should exercise regularly and pursue fitness goals, which is also true.
But almost everyone at some point in their lives has struggled with body image. In our current looks-obsessed society, it’s almost impossible not to. 
A question then is where is the healthy line between wanting to push yourself to reach your body goals and being comfortable in your own skin?
This episode featured the amazing Mishael, one of Wole's friends.
Remember to subscribe to the podcast on the app you're using right now and follow 20s Convos on Instagram to join the conversation! We put out quotes, polls, and clips from each episode every week.
Timestamps
[02:19] - Setting the context
[03:57] - Body shaming while growing up
[09:06] - Defining Body Positivity
[13:16] - The culture of validation, movements and advocation
[14:14] - Exploring the “downsides” of Body Positivity
[15:01] - Talking about insecurities
[30:00] - Body Positivity and resulting lifestyles
[32:23] - Personal Health and Collective Responsibility
[44:49] - The effect of culture on Body Positivity
[52:50] - The relationship between social classes and health
[1:01:41] - Wrapping up

The one about love and attraction through algorithms.
...
Who needs to wait to be introduced to a crush or wait to run into them at the mall a couple of times in a row while picking up groceries... Nope, not anymore.
Online dating/dating apps have become widespread and revolutionised how we pursue relationships. It has broken down the need for proximity, made the chances of dating (“casual” or serious) more achievable, and given everyone a fair chance.
Or has it? 🤔
This was a conversation about our experiences and thoughts about scanning, swiping and matching.
Remember to subscribe to the podcast on the app you're using right now and follow 20s Convos on Instagram to join the conversation! We put out quotes, polls, and clips from each episode every week.
Timestamps
[01:35] - The context
[14:46] - The success of dating apps
[26:28] - Girls and the lack of "game"
[35:45] - Over-reliance on online connections
[56:42] - Selection metrics

The one about finding our way through feminism....
Last season, we spoke about the problem with men, focusing on some unhealthy traits that we're known to exhibit. While this episode is not a direct opposite, this time, we put the spotlight on women.
This was an open conversation centred around feminism and how aspects of the movement continue to manifest in our everyday lives. 
Clearly, we as men don’t have to contend with the issues women have to deal with on a regular, and that's one of the reasons why we brought on a friend, Seyitan. 
...
Remember to subscribe to the podcast on the app you're using right now and follow 20s Convos on Instagram to join the conversation! We put out quotes, polls, and clips from each episode every week.
Timestamps
[00:39] - Defining feminism
[05:37] - Male Privilege
[09:17] - Women and Privilege
[14:50] - Is life easier being a man or being a woman?
[24:00] - Marriage and flawed perceptions
[26:20] - Equality in marriage
[28:35] - Male Feminists
[36:10] - Possible solutions
[45:00] - Wrapping up

The one about the myth of independence.
Being in your 20s is not exactly a walk in the park. You are not where you want to be, but you are also not quite sure where you want to go. At least for the majority.
It is the feeling of being stuck in between growing and grown, uncertain if you are still a kid or an adult yet. It is the gap between your “dream job” and where you have to show up again tomorrow.
On this episode, Wolé and Tobi talk about what independence means to them, the milestones of independence, and common misconceptions about the whole thing.
Remember to subscribe to the podcast on the app you're using right now and follow 20s Convos on Instagram to join the conversation! We put out quotes, polls, and clips from each episode every week.
Timestamps
[03:07] - Setting the context
[04:45] - Defining independence
[10:39] - Milestones that mark independence
[23:32] - Love, control and being economically useless
[30:58] - Misconceptions about independence
[37:37] - Final thoughts

It's been a short while, but Wolé and Tobi are back for the second season of 20s Convos! 
This season will see us have even more exciting conversations about feminism, independence in young adults, division in ideologies, staying healthy and a lot more.
Subscribe to the 20s Convos podcast on Apple, Spotify or wherever you listen to your podcast. Episodes get released every Monday.
You can also catch videos from each episode on YouTube and follow @20sconvos on Instagram to join the conversation.

On this bonus episode, we sat down with 4 of our friends (Aije, Banjo, Anjola and Tomiwa) who have all been following the podcast this season. They talked about their favourite episodes, biggest takeaways, and topics they'd like to see us have a conversation about on future episodes.
Follow 20s Convos on Instagram to join the conversations there and subscribe to our newsletter to stay in the loop of everything else we release!

The one about the Black identity across borders.
What do you think it means to be black? Is it skin colour, ethnic backgrounds, or more?
Are there levels of being black?
Is a person who is born and bred in Africa “more black” than a black European or American or vice versa?
Is it even possible to have black hierarchies?
Bruh.

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This episode is about "The Impostor Syndrome".
Does each raise, promotion or accolade bring joy? Or is it accompanied by the dread that, one day, your cover will be blown, and everyone will find out that you just got lucky?
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